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There are many things in this life that mystify me.
Topping that list is the sheer volume of “writers” (quotation marks necessary to indicate their dubious status as such) willing to sell themselves for next to nothing.
I wasn’t able to be at the BlogHer conference in Chicago this past weekend, but I gathered from several sources that one of the more scandalous topics (ooh! scandal! worse than someone wearing tacky shoes, even!) was that PayPerPost was one of the conference sponsors and during panel discussion on monetization, several people expressed the opinion that PayPerPost is more or less the pimp of the blog world, prostituting unsuspecting bloggers.
Predictably, some people who have availed themselves of PayPerPost’s “services” were miffed. How dare you insult a conference sponsor! How dare you suggest my writing is less than yours! Etc.
I don’t really know (or care) about the politics involved in dissing a conference sponsor right there at the conference, but I do know that PayPerPost and places like them should be reviled by any writer worth her salt. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: You deserve a decent wage for your work, and settling for less makes it harder for every working writer out there to get it.
$5 for a blog post is not a decent wage. Period. (Don’t even get me started on the whole “write a post pretending you love this product” scheme they have going on there, because there are not enough words available to express my indignation over the thousand reasons that that’s a poor business model at best and condescending/dishonest at worst. This is not about their shady marketing schema, only their crappy pay.)
If you’ve got a minute or 30 to spare, go read this post on fair freelance writing wages and be sure to peruse the discussion in comments as well. Some of the comments are actually more interesting than the post itself. In fact, one of the comments points to this piece on wiping out price resistance which is a must-read for every freelancer.
There is no one-size-fits-all model of pay scale; what you need to live on and what I need to live on may differ, maybe by a lot. Geography and even lifestyle need to be taken into account. Likewise, $10/post for something that takes you two hours is a very different proposition than $10/post if it only takes you five minutes. Don’t go looking for absolutes. Do consider what your time is worth, though, and behave accordingly.
Something to consider: Places like PayPerPost wouldn’t exist if no one was willing to settle. Don’t settle. (And if you do settle? Don’t waste your breath telling me why it’s okay. It’s not okay. I feel sorry for you and I’m annoyed that your willingness to prostitute yourself makes it harder for me to command the wage I deserve.)
This entry was posted on Tuesday, July 31st, 2007 at 7:33 am and is filed under Things you should be reading, Like talking but with more typing, Now I'm free(lancing). You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
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July 31st, 2007 at 10:41 am
Rock on, Mir! I posted about similar on my blog today. And in fact, on my blogher panel Saturday I called them out as well - not quite as harshly as you.
I think they’re an okay enough service (as a concept) only in the hands of incompetent copywriters. So maybe even worse than the pay structure, you end up writing disingenuous posts that become wholly amateurish ad copy and in the end, you alienate your audience.
Net result: You have a crappy blog, no readers, and no money to show for it. Not exactly a good business relationship.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:58 am
Amen! Thank you so much.
The same goes in the grant writing industry: If you make a deal with someone to write a grant and only have them pay you IF the grant gets funded, then you have basically not only screwed yourself, but also every other grant writer in the industry. Grants must get written. They take time and expertise. We must get paid to write them. Period.
Ooh, now I am all fired up!
July 31st, 2007 at 12:13 pm
I LOATHE PayPerPost. One of the blogs I used to read does it now, multiple times a day, and I honestly think she can’t tell how blatently obvious and fake those posts are. I think it’s not only insulting to the writer, it’s insulting to the reader; I do not come to your blog to be told what yogurt to buy.
BAH!!! Hate.
July 31st, 2007 at 12:32 pm
Love reading you, love reading Chris who sent me over here. It’s fascinating to me that this situation rages unchecked through so many work situations of women - I’m a massage practitioner and it’s a constant, divisive discussion. I’m on your side of the argument, for your work and for mine. I don’t care if someone makes less money overall than I do. But don’t devalue feminism and all your colleagues by taking whatever pittance some greedy jerk offers you! And if you don’t know what equitable compensation looks like, get your butt in gear and do some research!
July 31st, 2007 at 12:33 pm
awesome post. You’re right, there’s no one-size-fits-all, (one reason I don’t fall into the “I never write for less than $X per word” camp), and everybody has to start somewhere…but there’s starting, and then there’s settling and continuing to settle. Off to read the pricing guide you linked to.
July 31st, 2007 at 2:03 pm
I can’t tell you how happy I am to hear of others that loathe PayPerPost. When I posted my deep rooted hatred for them last year, I got completely and utterly slammed for it. I am so glad to know I am not alone in this arena.
July 31st, 2007 at 5:48 pm
Great post. There are so many reasons I find PPP questionable! I think it takes advantage of bloggers, and I think it damages the “trust” bloggers have worked hard to build with their readers.
July 31st, 2007 at 5:58 pm
AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN
July 31st, 2007 at 6:45 pm
Here’s what bloggers who write product reviews for peanuts on their own blogs are forgetting: there ARE places who will pay a living wage to bloggers, not to shill products but to write about interesting and engaging topics. BUT those jobs tend to go to bloggers who have been writing from their own heart and mind in the first place, not advertising for hair plugs or baby wipes or motor oil (or, in some cases, all three) on their personal blogs.
Sites that pay bloggers well hire them for their specific voice; a blog consisting entirely of PPP posts HAS no original, specific voice. Services like PPP are NOT a stepping stone to better paying, more prestigious blogging work; they are an end in themselves, and a bad end at that.
July 31st, 2007 at 7:04 pm
As a lifelong writer and one who has been paid to write for more than twenty years, I totally agree that we need to stop giving our work away. HOWEVER, I will also say that there are wages and there are wages. Read this and see if you don’t agree: http://rockstories.blogspot.com/2007/06/what-does-free-really-mean-anyway.html
And if Rolling Stone calls, I’m available. I’m just saying…
July 31st, 2007 at 7:35 pm
Barb: I agree in theory, but the kind of venue that would make the exposure be a failsafe road-to-stardom and therefore outweigh any payment is arguably never going to stiff someone that way. One of the reasons Rolling Stone is Rolling Stone is because they’re huge, they’re known, and they pay beyond what most of their competitors do.
Theoretical discussions like the one you point to are interesting, but as has been noted, this isn’t about the relativity of whether $50 or $100 is the right amount for XYZ assignment. This is about people who work for hours for the equivalent of less than minimum wage, and the impact those people are having on our industry as a whole.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Right, publications that are going to offer you awesome, career- and life-changinig exposure probably aren’t going to pay nothing, though they don’t always pay top dollar. And even doing free work that’s a calculated gamble–like, say, writing a novel when there’s no guarantee it’ll ever get published, or writing an essay and then submitting it to an important anthology–or even writing for free because the topic or outlet is important to you, can’t really be compared with writing $5 product reviews. Sure, the people who write product blurbs, advertorials and other kinds of copywriting are also making about $5…every other minute.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:44 pm
I completely agree that the dynamic of working for free (or for a really reduced rate) without a good reason is incredibly damaging to freelancers of all kinds, and that it seems to be particularly problematic amongst women. (The looooong list of reasons for that is a subject for another time.)
However, I have to say that I really disagree with the workdng in your last paragraph - unless you’re talking about the issue of PPP buying people’s opinions, saying that folks who use PPP prostitute themselves is inaccurate. They’re getting paid for their writing, as you are, they’re just getting paid a ridiculously low wage for it; the issue is the price, not the fact that they’re selling their writing.
July 31st, 2007 at 9:51 pm
You know what though, I started out making $4 a post for Weblogs Inc. and now make a much more reasonable living wage. Perhaps PayPerPost is a starting spot and a place to get noticed by other paying venues?
(I say, knowing absolutely nothing about them.)
July 31st, 2007 at 9:53 pm
Prostitutes get paid, Alice. They get paid a crappy wage for demeaning themselves. PPP (and others like them) pay a lousy rate for what I consider to be work of questionable value. Not because the people they hire necessarily can’t write, but because they’re writing advertisements disguised as personal blog entries.
I am sometimes paid to write advertisements. I have no problem with that. I have a problem with 1) insulting pay and 2) trying to pretend an advertisement is something other than what it is.
This happens in lots of different fields, as some commenters have pointed out, but I take issue with it happening in writing because it directly affects my ability to conduct my business by perpetuating the myth that writing should be cheap and made-to-order apart from any sort of ethical standard.
I thank you for your comments, and respect what you’re saying, but I stand by my analogy.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:26 pm
Mir, I wrote the original post that Barb referenced here, and although the example of Rolling Stone was a bit exaggerated and obviously hypothetical, the discussion wasn’t meant to be theoretical in the least. I sold my first book as a direct result of an article I wrote for free–an article that took me nearly fifty hours of unpaid work. I made that investment because I knew that the article provided a forum not only to establish credibility on the subject, but to make contacts I would need for the book and establish a working relationship with them.
Much of the work a writer does–especially book work–requires some time investment “on spec”, and selling books (or even pieces to larger, better paying markets) often hinges on past related publications. While many writers make the mistake of thinking that ANY clip is going to be a career-furthering device, the fact is that well-chosen outlets with credibility in one’s area of interest or expertise often do provide that foot in the door. I can definitely tell you that without the investment I made in that one free article, I would have lost out on tens of thousands of dollars in later income–or at the very least had to invest at least as much time in “selling myself”. And I don’t believe that’s nearly so rare as many writers want to pretend. I think it’s all a matter of choosing wisely.
July 31st, 2007 at 11:28 pm
Don’t forget that it perpetuates the idea the ANYONE can write. Have just completed a stint as the editor of a regional publication that was 80% freelance written, I can tell you that not all writing is created equal. I can’t tell you how many people thought that because they had some expertise in a field that they could write decent, cogent, and interesting pieces for me.
And the honest wages for writing are plenty low enough –my magazine pays $30 for a 500 word column and that’s totally in line with other regional family publications of the same type.
I will say, though, that in the past, in order to gain exposure as a freelance writer, not to mention a clip portfolio, I posted some of my work on the free article banks. It paid, in a sense, in that I gained an audience. I wouldn’t do it today, though.
August 1st, 2007 at 12:27 pm
Alice - I think that the reason PPP is a problem is because you’re not just the writer of the posts, your own blog is the publishing platform. You are both selling your talent and time, as well as the advertising medium.
In the process, ppp writers tend to destroy their blogs (that they’ve sometimes worked years on) and alienate their audiences.
All for a few dollars a post.
That’s quite the trade-off.
August 1st, 2007 at 4:08 pm
I have to admit that I’m torn on this issue. I resisted any of the paid posting opportunities for a while after learning of them. I watched two bloggers I know begin to write paid posts. One did it in what I’d call a responsible way, by making sure the readers knew it was a sponsored post. The other was not as clear, but it was apparent by the posts themselves.
I signed up for a company called PayU2Blog, and yes, they start out at $5 per post. I don’t think I’ve written a post for them yet where I endorsed the product itself. I usually work the keywords they give me into something else I’m talking about. Sometimes it works, other times not so much.
I would love to find other opportunities. That’s why I went to BlogHer in the first place; to hopefully learn HOW to find these opportunities. Because in my experience so far, writing really doesn’t pay.
When I did freelance for a weekly paper, I was paid a mere $15 per story, and I used to put a hell of a lot more work into those than I have a $5 blog post. I was offered a job at a daily paper for $8.50 an hour. Having spent four months as an intern for that very paper, I can say without a doubt that the money wasn’t worth the job, especially when you factor in a 45 minute commute each way.
I would LOVE to actually have a job that requires my degree. Unfortunately, I couldn’t find one that paid the bills.
So, is it really any different in “the real world?”
August 2nd, 2007 at 7:51 am
[…] single mom for a number of years and some of it is just how I am. But it occurred to me while we were discussing pay rates that I’ve often heard folks talking about how expensive it is to go into business on your […]
August 4th, 2007 at 3:08 pm
This is late, but what do you think about revenue sharing? I’m doing some work for about $0.01/word, but I get 60% of commission revenue as well and I worked into the contract that they only have exclusive web publishing rights, I can put any of it in print. I’m reading all of these about selling writing too cheap, and I’m wondering if I did the right thing. Any thoughts?
August 4th, 2007 at 9:02 pm
Carrien: I can’t say whether you did the right thing for you or not, of course. If you believe in the market and feel that a fair percentage is going to you (60% commission revenue sounds very generous, assuming there’s any revenue to split), then maybe it’s a great deal.
August 5th, 2007 at 11:44 am
It is okay with me that you don’t like PayPerPost… is it okay with you that I do like them?
August 5th, 2007 at 1:21 pm
AnnaBella: My point is that PPP and places like them are causing problems for my industry by both diluting the talent pool and lowering the bar for what is expected pay. Is it okay with me that you like them? It’s a free country. I disagree with you for all the reasons discussed, but you are of course welcome to hold a different opinion. I will continue to vehemently disagree with you, however, if you want to “explain” to me that they’re not detrimental to the professional lives of career freelancers, because they are.
August 5th, 2007 at 2:54 pm
How do I say this?
There are advertisers who use PPP and pay $5, they are cheap, they want a lot for the $5, and I don’t take them.
Other bloggers do.
This is something many of us who work for PPP have discussed again and again.
Some of us will not take those $5 jobs. We just flat out refuse. But there are others who do, they will take any job because money is money to them.
Some of us have standards though and won’t take them.
It’s a constant battle getting the other PPP users to see their worth and boycott the low paying jobs.
The problem with PPP is that the minimum pay rate is $5, so there are adverts who use that min. There are other adverts who see the value of our blogs and pay us accordingly.
There is also PPP direct where an advert can hire us individually, for the price we set, and it works out quite well.
I agree that the min base pay needs to go from $5 to a more reasonable wage of say $10, but it’s a battle we are fighting, and eventually we will get there.
I also agree that some bloggers will take every single job even if it doesn’t relate to their blogs, and it makes me sick too.
I wish I could email them all and tell them how stupid they are, but they want the money and obviously don’t care.
What I disagree with is, lumping all of us who write for PPP into the same box. Not all of us write about hair transplants and motor oil when it clearly doesn’t fit our blogs.
I don’t. I write the ones that fit, and I refuse to take less than $10 for any job.
It’s not entirely a PPP problem. I don’t blame them completely. They are only a year old, still learning how this all works, and I have faith that eventually they will set the min. base pay to a reasonable wage.
The bigger problem is the bloggers who use PPP, and do take all those low paying, crappy jobs that DO NOT fit in with what their blog is about.
That is the problem I have. I want them to see how it hurts all of us in the long run, but they see $$ signs, not the big picture.
I also do freelance jobs and I command high wages for those and I get them.
I have also done product reviews where my products have high dollar value, and yes I gave them glowing reviews, but they deserved glowing reviews.
I got a portrait canvas, free, it was gorgeous. It deserved a rave review.
I did a sterling silver portrait laser engraved locket. Again, gorgeous, it deserved therave review I gave it.
I have also had products sent to me that sucked and I said they sucked.
So no, not all of us are lying in our posts, not all of us are shilling out for pennies.
We all don’t deserve to be in that same box.
August 6th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
It seems many people are saying that if bloggers refused low-paying jobs, payment for all jobs would increase. But all blogs and all writers are not equal. Why should those bloggers who have high traffic and excellent writing skills (and have worked hard to get where they are) be paid the same as those who do not have the traffic or the quality? Better bloggers get better gigs. But bloggers who are just starting out, or perhaps who simply aren’t that good, should still have the opportunity to take whatever money they feel is acceptable for their time and effort.
Here’s an analogy: If all actors banded together and decided they would not accept low-paying jobs, would all the crappy actors suddenly be getting paid more? Not likely. They just simply wouldn’t get any jobs.
August 6th, 2007 at 11:42 pm
An addendum to my analogy: AND the better actors would be getting paid less because filmmakers would need to pay less-talented actors more.
August 6th, 2007 at 11:45 pm
Shannon: I disagree (I can see you’re shocked). You touched briefly on the problem—in other professions, for the most part, those who can’t perform well simply don’t work. Because absolutely anyone is “qualified” to “work” in this way (for places like PPP), again, it both dilutes the talent pool and lowers the compensation for others.
Here’s an analogy for my point: If anyone could declare themselves a licensed doctor because some random establishment would grant you a license and send patients to you and pay you $3 apiece for seeing them, that would be utterly detrimental to the medical field because SOME (uneducated) people would assume those “doctors” are the same as actual doctors. It would cause problems for those genuinely making their living as medical professionals to have a crop of pseudo-doctors working for pennies in their midst.
But if you like your actors analogy, I’d actually argue that a more apt parallel would be NOT comparing good/well-paid actors to those being paid crap, but comparing the former to actors who get work via the casting couch because they’re just that desperate for work.
In other words, the pay problem is really just a symptom.
August 8th, 2007 at 11:17 am
I agree with what Shannon is saying. My question specifically is what about the other bloggers? The ones who are not professional writers? Are you saying they should just go ahead and give up?
Like I said in many other blog posts, the Internet is a huge place. There is room for all of us and there are so many ways to make money. I just don’t think it’s fair to say these women who choose PPP are prostituting themselves.
I personally don’t use PPP. It is not for me. But I did sign up when they first opened up to evaluate their service on my home business blog but nothing more.
August 8th, 2007 at 11:33 am
I’m starting to feel like a broken record. Okay, one more time: My issue is that people’s willingness to work in this way directly affects the climate in the field even for those of us who are professionals.
My belief is that if someone wants to work for pay in an entrepreneurial manner in spite of being an amateur, that’s great. I love what places like Etsy have done for crafters, for example. It gets trickier with selling your writing but sure, maybe as a newbie you’ll work for less. What I object to is the combination of low pay and this whole advertising-disguised-as-personal-view schema. I object to it in principle and I object to it because the proliferation of “writers” doing this is causing my clients to wonder why they can’t hire me for $5/post. (The smart ones figure it out, of course, but it does get tiresome.)
February 28th, 2008 at 7:53 am
[…] Appreciate peer pressure. You need to know what freelancers in your field generally charge. That means finding out a nationwide average as well as what folks in your local area tend to run. You are looking for a range of fees; I know of no field in which everyone charges exactly the same amount. Maybe when you’re hiring Borgs-R-Us that could be true, but in the real world it varies. And hear me on this point: resist the temptation to bid lower than the usual range just to land a job. There are two reasons for this. First, if being paid less than what is normal is the only way to get that job, it isn’t a job worth having; and second, undercharging hurts everyone in your field (as I’ve discussed before). […]
May 7th, 2008 at 11:42 pm
[…] a budget and had to figure out how to stick to it. And there is little doubt that it is hard, as the brilliant Mir pointed out, in the freelancing world, to figure out how much to charge and to not just […]