Sara brought up a very important overarching issue to my post last week on men-only country golf clubs:
I think that it’s almost a bigger issue than just discrimination at the club. It’s about where and what social circumstances business takes place. What if you don’t play golf? Don’t drink? Don’t go to clubs? As a businesswoman you’re probably missing out on many conversations outside this sexist club just because of your hobbies.
Thanks Sara for making my point! What happens on the golf course is usually far more than just socializing. It is business. It happens on the green, at the bar (another point of contention at the Phoenix Golf Club), in a million different places than just the conference room.
But even if all the fabu golf courses let women be members and allowed them in the fancy dining room with the well-stocked bar, what if you don’t play golf? I did mention that the National Hispana Leadership Institute has offered golf clinics in the past, thus a sign that golf is not so much an interest or hobby within the business sector, but rather a job requirement. Which is why I’m make a horrible business woman…I hate golf! Now putt-putt, I’ll take my clients to the Bunny Hutch anytime.
Even before I was a mom, I wasn’t a very good socializer. Perhaps it had to do with the fact that I already had a full schedule of meetings, thus when an event was over, I headed home exhausted. I’ve also been with my husband my entire adult life, thus even if I had any energy left, I’d head home to/with him rather than hit the local bar with my fellow activists.
Yes, that did leave me well short when it came to leadership opportunities and elections. I knew people, was friendly with most of them, but I wasn’t saddling up with them with a frosty beer either. I also didn’t smoke and tried to avoid smokers as much as possible. Plus I honestly hate hanging out after a feminist event with smokers when cancer and heart disease are two of the leading causes of death for women.
So when it comes to extracurricular points in the work place, I am usually a big loser. Which is one reason why I love attending conferences…Now that’s 24/7 socializing for a few days and I can do that. I’m focused, I have a goal, and BAM! I get it done.
As I am getting up there in rank and age, I am realizing how important it is to sometimes take the time to hit the bar for a few beers or a martini. And it’s not like I don’t like to drink, cause believe me, I love me a martini night with the girls. Maybe that’s it. When I’m drinking, I want to be hanging with my girls or my guy. I want to relax not worry if I should talk about this topic or not because this person is with me. But I’m trying.
Readers, do you have to push yourself to do “fun” things for your career? Hitting the bar? Going to a sporting event? Playing a sport? Or are you a natural socializer? If so, give those of us like me some helpful hints! Thanks!
I would love to share my experiences about the ’socializing’ that has to happen just to keep doors open to the battered women’s shelter that I work at. But I think that’s be a whole blog entry in itself.
What I would like to share is that I have a niece who is studying at a prestigious law school and she shared with me that on one of the final exams a question was asked with reference to golf terms. She and another Latina friend of hers said that it took them forever just to understand the question because they don’t play golf. Interestingly enough, my niece is spending the summer doing an internship with a prestigious law firm in Houston and one of the things that she had to do was go with the associates who are in charge of her education there and take some golf lessons.
When she told me about the exam I felt like it was the 70’s all over again and a test having questions about cups and saucers would not make sense to poor kids like me who didn’t know what a saucer was. I tell people all the time we really aren’t as far as we think we are with regards to racism, classism, sexism and heterosexism. But I’m just the over-zealous feminist who works at the battered women’s shelter.
mexicanwoman aka choicestoday | July 7th, 2008 at 9:15 am
Veronica, what a great post and really important topic, I think. It took me a while to realize how critical outside-of-work socializing is for my career. But I think it’s pretty important. I do try to schedule lunches and drinks and coffee regularly — although one of the things that I almost completely cut out of my schedule after my daughter was born are night functions.
I spent the last 5 yrs before launching Work It, Mom! in one of the most male-dominated industries, venture capital. Most socializing took place in cigar clubs and on golf courses and I think it definitely made it harder for me as a woman. My boss once told me that if I were going to be successful in that filed I better learn how to golf because there wasn’t going to be a networking meeting at the spa.
Nataly | July 7th, 2008 at 9:54 am
This is probably my biggest career weakness. I’m not great with networking, and the socializing-shmoozing stuff is even harder. I don’t drink or smoke either, and I am a certified non-jock. I am also an introvert with a tendency to shyness around new people. My favorite activity is reading - and while discussing books is social (in person or online), reading itself is still an individual activity.
I think that for me, it’s like what you said toward the end of your post, Veronica - socializing is social. It’s about friends, not work. Maybe that’s where I need to adjust my thinking.
Florinda | July 7th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Education is very political, and political means socializing. I do not socialize well because of my hearing impairment; the background noise makes it tough for me to hear the person I’m talking to. I do make a few significant “appearances” at key events, but it’s difficult and exhausting.
Daisy | July 7th, 2008 at 11:25 am
I worked in that environment for 13 years and never did golf, and I don’t drink either, and for that matter I don’t eat steak or seafood, and I don’t follow basketball.
It is hard but I kept my career moving, albeit slowly, by working harder, learning more, and having a better sensitivity to clients’ “real” concerns than my male counterparts.
It gets easier as more clients and targets have female and foreign-born executives than before. They share more interests with me than with my male colleagues.
Ultimately I dropped out of the game, though, because at some point the internal schmoozing with the nearly 100% male higher-ups was counter-productive to my life. To keep things cooking, I would need to travel to the big cities constantly, wear high heels just because women have to dress sharper than men, eat beef and drink and pretend to appreciate filthy jokes and enjoy the oft-repeated ramblings of drunks, etc. I refused to compromise my values and my health and I refused to be undercompensated as a result. I’m now a partner in an all-woman firm and we do NOT GOLF!
SKL | July 7th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
I was once told that if I wanted to ever make it in corporate America I needed to learn how to golf.
Clearly my career choices have led me in other directions. But I am a very shy person in large “social networking” settings and have had to learn how to make small talk and “socialize” - I know it is hard to believe that a person who is in development is shy - but it is true. Generally I have found it easier to “network” at events where there is something to spark conversation - a speaker/etc. and talk with donors in small settings. But even then, I sometimes shy away from talking or sitting with people I don’t know.
ARGH!!! If only I had learned golf early on….
Dani | July 7th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
I think we as women probably need to create our own social circumstances outside of the traditional ones. If men want to play golf and we don’t, perhaps we can think of other activities that cross the gender gap. Or, get all the powerful women together and do a woman’s only activity! That’ll show em.
Sara | July 9th, 2008 at 7:06 am