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(Cathie) Black Magic
12 comments
The bitch is in.
12 comments
I think you are an idiot.
12 comments
It's finally Friday. I'm free again.
10 comments |
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I am finally back to work after a long slow recovery from surgery. I was out of the office for six weeks and during that leave I had some time to browse the internets. One of my world wide hangouts is Work It, Mom of course.
Recently I asked a question in a Work It, Mom forum trying to uncover how women view their career and what they feel holds them back from achieving career success. The results were not entirely shocking to me. It was noted by one mother that she feels raising her children is her top priority at this point. A list of mothers noted something that I have heard from women before.
It is hard to be nice and be successful.
**coughs** WHAT!?!?! **coughs**
One person commented that she was afraid that she wouldn’t be thought of as nice if she was aggressive. “I really dont want to be “the” bitch at work you know?”
Others (both in this forum and in other conversations I have had) have not disagreed with the idea that to be successful you have to stand up for yourself, be aggressive and put your foot down. Being a bitch, it seems, is the unwritten requirement to achieving success.
Please bear with me while I tear this theory to pieces…
I have several questions racing through my mind when I think about this subject. Let’s see if I can wrangle those into something that makes sense. Perhaps list form is the way to go?
- I have never read or heard in any class or textbook that “success” was synonymous with “bitch”. I just looked up the word “success” on Dictionary.com and I couldn’t find one single connection to the idea that being a skilled and wicked bitch was tied to success. Where, oh where, does this concept come from? Are we women blackening our own eyes with the idea that we have to be ruthless in the workplace to achieve success?
- If it is believed that a woman has to be a bitch to be successful, is it then believed that all successful men are assholes?
- I wonder how many people would define Oprah as a “bitch”? Powerful? Definitely. Confident? Without a doubt. BITCH? methinksnot.
- Is being super nice in the workplace better for your professional reputation than being skilled in addressing important company issues quickly, directly and fairly?
- If I told you that I actually KNOW women that are both LIKED and *gasp* successful in the workplace, would you believe me?
- Who exactly is perceiving successful women as bitches? Is it men? Women? Co-workers? Managers? Who exactly are these name calling ninnies and what roles do they play in your organization?
I just find it really hard to believe that women REALLY believe that they can’t be successful because they are too nice. I have zero desire to be hated by my co-workers. Being a bitch is not a label I really want pinned on me by people I spend 40 hours a week with. I hope and pray that my work in the office meets or exceeds the expectations of my management team and maybe I am an odd duck for believing that I can be liked and respected by my co-workers. I don’t believe it is impossible to address office events directly, aggressively and kindly.
Being a bitch, in my mind, means that I would bury a co-worker alive in an attempt to improve my standing in the workplace. I do not believe that being the person to knock on executives door and say “Dude! Shit is BROKEN! I propose we do XYZ to resolve it.” makes me a bitch.
So I guess I am wondering what your thoughts are on being nice in the workplace. Can you be successful AND be liked? What is the difference between being direct and being a direct pain in the ass?
Lastly, I would like to add this final thought. I feel like I have achieved great success in my career. I have had experiences and learned things I never imagined possible. I feel incredibly blessed to be where I am today with my career. If you asked me to name the number one skill or ability I have that has gotten me to where I am today I would tell you very simply:
Charisma, baby.
This entry was posted on Wednesday, November 21st, 2007 at 9:48 pm and is filed under Climbing the ladder, Culture, People.
Tags: bitch, career management, co-workers, how to advance, how to climb the company ladder, Office, office relationships, workplace, your career
November 21st, 2007 at 10:19 pm
Before I was hired as an official “employee” at my company in the missile defense industry, I got my foot in the door by temping for several offices. I had the pleasure of working for several female executives.. a concept I had long considered urban legend. One lady in particular was amazing with people.. she was smart as a whip, good at what she did, and personally involved with all employees she interacted with. But I watched her TEAR UP some man who thought they could pull one over on her. I think she found a crucial balance.. and one we should all strive to achieve.
That’s lengthy. But I’m verbose.
November 22nd, 2007 at 9:11 pm
Sarah! i have seen the same! And I am lengthy too so don’t feel bad!
Kathy - what i have seen is people who feel insecure and assume they deserve more for whatever reason just chart up their lack of supposed achievement to being ‘nice’ and someone else’s success (of whom they are jealous) to being a ‘bitch’. However, most of the time the successful people (men AND women) are successful because they listen to people and make decisions by taking into account the bigger picture.
November 23rd, 2007 at 8:48 pm
I think the difficulty so many people have with women who can deal directly with issues is, they haven’t seen enough good examples of them. The few they have seen just happened to be bitches.
Both Sarah and Kate have mentioned some of the most important traits successful professionals of all genders and employments levels require: balancing the ability to wield power with the ability to interact with people, listening to people, and taking the ‘big picture’ view of things.
Congratulations on getting back to work, Kathy!!
November 24th, 2007 at 3:33 pm
The only person to call me a “b****” was not a coworker, but a (male) student who dealt with his issues by being a jerk instead by working harder. Yes, he was suspended by the (female) principal.
November 25th, 2007 at 8:37 am
I once created a little stir on my blog by suggesting that you could be a “good” mother ad also a “strong” one. There are an astonishing number of women who seem to believe that “strong” is in opposition to “nice”. They’ve constructed a persona in which to be assertive is, by definition, to be bitchy.
Because they don’t allow themselves to assert themselves, they have no idea how to do it positively. I suspect they aspire to “nice, sweet, kind, gentle”, eating all manner of disappointment, untl they burst in a toxic blast of rage and fury. Which would only confirm their notion that you can’t be nicely assertive.
Which is bullshit, of course.
November 25th, 2007 at 10:18 am
Thanks all for the great comments. MaryP…I especially liked your closing remark:
“Which is bullshit, of course.” LOL
An additional thought: I’m not suggesting that my co-workers ALWAYS like me. I’m sure at times they have uttered not-so-niceties about me under their breath. There are times when I think it is impossible NOT to piss someone off in the office. Whether that be my intent or not. That said, I think overall it is possible to get along exceptionally well with co-workers, be assertive and climb the corporate ladder.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:46 am
It amazes me how many women buy into this fiction. Behavior that would be considered normal when done my males in the workplace suddenly is labeled “bitchy” when performed by females. And from my observation, it is more often the women that apply the label. Most men accept assertive women, at least in my work arena.
When I was a very young career woman, a wise lady told me I had to decide something: whether I wanted to be liked, or I wanted to be respected. It took me time to mature into it, but I definitely act based on respect. I want people to respect me, and I try to be respectful of others. Being a bitch has no connection to respect. Earning (and expecting) respect from others also involves treating others with respect, even if you are being assertive. I think people often forget that.
November 27th, 2007 at 10:58 am
This is just one data point but a few jobs back, I worked in an office with 2 women and 7 men. The 2 other women who worked with me were junior to me, although I didn’t manage them directly. I overheard a conversation once between the 2 of them and one of the guys in which they said that I was too aggressive and bitchy. The guy said he was surprised and didn’t really see me that way - although “she’s tough”, he said.
It’s just one example and I hate to draw generalizations from it, but in that particular situation it was the other women in the office who saw me as bitchy, not the guys.
November 28th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
This is going to be all over the place b/c this post hit a nerve for me. I think knowing when to stand up for yourself is key. I don’t think you have to be everyone’s friend, or get walked on like a rug. On the other hand being really bitchy all the time will not get you where you want to go, though it is unlikely you will get taken advantage of. I agree w/ Kathy K that respect is more impt than being liked. There are some gender issues too ~ women can be more harsh than men. I think women spend a lot of time trying to justify to themselves their choices (see the whole nightmarish SAHM/WAHM vs working mom nonsense). Charisma is good. I think though that professionalism is better.
November 29th, 2007 at 9:34 am
Kathy
A most interesting post - and an issue many of us struggle with, real or perceived. I have been more successful in my career than I would have ever guessed and one of the nicest compliments I ever received was from a male direct report who said to me “you’re smart, you’re nice, you’re humble, you’re tough and I’m so glad to see people like you have been able to succeed without stepping on anyone”. The best part about the quote was that he didn’t stay seeing a “woman like me succeed”, but rather said “people like me succeed”.
But a sad obervation: the statement about successful women being a bitch is a statement I have heard the OVERWHELMING majority of the time from other women. In fact, last night I was at a work function and various business units within my company were being honored for outstanding performance. One of the business units that won several awards is led by a woman, and a female colleague seated next to me at dinner leaned over and said, “I hear she’s a real bitch - have you ever worked with her? So-and-so tells me she’s like a man dressed as a woman”.
December 26th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Okay, so you burned your bras and now you are liberated. Yes, you’ve gained many freedoms that were previously not acceptable for women.
You can ask a man for a date and even be the one who proposes if you decide to do so.
You can pursue your own careers and many of you have proven that you are quite capable of leading as well as following.
You can drink beer straight from the bottle, go to male stripper shows, smoke cigars, and use any choice cuss word that you want; whereever you want. You are indeed liberated. You’ve worked hard for it, you’ve earned it, and no one should deny you what countless generations of your gender have struggled and sacrificed to accomplish.
However, none of this makes you necessarily attractive, desired, wanted, or pursued. In fact, should you be one of those women who is caught up in the current trend to act and be “bitchy,” doing so actually makes you very unattractive in the eyes of most men. Yes, you say that you can live without men who will not readily accept you should you have a bitchy attitude? Fine. Just realize that you’ve narrowed the field of men down to a very small minority. Furthermore, any willingness on their part to give in to a woman who feigns equality when really exercising control may be more out of their desparation than any kind of true acceptance.
- -
Before you dismiss the rest of this article, please read on. It could very well be that the point being made here will help any female reader gain some needed insight into the workings of the male mind and visa-versa. You see, few males would ever demean a woman who has done well in her chosen career. Most of us enjoy a gal with some spunk.
One of this writer’s favorite movie scenes is from “Overboard,” starring Goldie Hawne and Kirk Russell. Her character joins him for a beer at a redneck bar. When she reaches for her drink, Russell’s character states that, “I’ve always been attracted to women who drink their beer straight from the bottle.” The point is that we men enjoy our women in all shapes and sizes and with all of your liberties as well, but we are absolutely turned off and disgusted when you feel that you can only relate to us with an “attitude.”
-
Much like the gay male who overdoes his femininity with flamboyance, we view a female who is overly aggressive, manipulative, demeaning, and indignate in much the same way. There will never be any substitute for the expression true humanity, whether it is demonstrated by a man or a woman. Nothing is more attractive to a male than a liberated woman with a balanced attitude that is genuine and considerate.
I happen to work in an environment filled with young adults. Not only that, but I have two grown sons. If overly aggressive women could but hear the disgust for them as these young fellows talk, they would have to reconsider their self-deluded arrogance that demands they portray themselves as bitchy women. Except for whimps, there are few real men who really want anything to do with women who are self-gradiozed and demeaning toward men. These are the same women who revel in denigrating men for their supposed cluelessness. In truth, this issue has less to do with any difference between the sexes and much more to do with whether or not one is going to be a decent human being. I’ve had the experience of dating a woman who, although she was physically gorgeous, portrayed a superior attitude in all that she said and did. Her response to our four dates together resulted in an e-mail message stating that I was very “basic and simple” and that she was really looking for her “equal.” Even if I am basic and simple, the point is that she has obviously taken this attitude toward all men because that was most of the content of our conversations–her thirteen years of dating one “jerk” after another. However, I do think that she deserves her “equal.” After all, bitchy guys do exist as well.
Like my four-date-nightmare, there are too many women who complain about men not being romantic. The truth is that we guys are very capable of being romantic. It’s just that a woman with a self-centered attitude isn’t worth the effort on our part. Oh, we’ll go to bed with her as long as we can tolerate her barbs, griping, and whining but don’t think for one minute that we are going to ever get down on one knee and ask if she would like to wear our engagement ring. No, that request will be saved for a truly liberated woman–the one who is liberated from herself.
- -
In a perfect world, liberated women would be less aggressive and good men would be much more understanding regarding how to treat a woman more as a person than prey. Those couples who are enjoying a truly mutually fulfilling relationship are doing so because they have worked at developing balance, understanding each other, and relearning the simple truth that all of us need to be treated as valued human beings if we are to love truly and feel genuinely loved in return.
The world isn’t perfect but, then again, each of us has the ability to readjust our thinking so that we can bring both maturity and understanding to our own primary relationships.
Either that or we’ll just have to adapt to being unhappy and very much alone.
May every woman experience nothing but the right to be free in every way and do well in whatever they attempt to do with no man-made obstacles to have to confront along the way. That is your right and that is what your fore-mothers worked so hard to accomplish for you.
All I am saying here is that some of you are obviously making the mistake of becoming exactly what you have historically hated in men. Don’t be a bitch and if you are one, don’t blame it on men. Take responsibility for yourselves and be our friends, companions, counterparts, equals, lovers, and partners.
Okay, so you burned your bras and now you are liberated. Yes, you’ve gained many freedoms that were previously not acceptable for women. You can ask a man for a date and even be the one who proposes if you decide to do so. You can pursue your own careers and many of you have proven that you are quite capable of leading as well as following. You can drink beer straight from the bottle, go to male stripper shows, smoke cigars, and use any choice cuss word that you want; whereever you want.
You are indeed liberated. You’ve worked hard for it, you’ve earned it, and no one should deny you what countless generations of your gender have struggled and sacrificed to accomplish. However, none of this makes you necessarily attractive, desired, wanted, or pursued. In fact, should you be one of those women who is caught up in the current trend to act and be “bitchy,” doing so actually makes you very unattractive in the eyes of most men. Yes, you say that you can live without men who will not readily accept you should you have a bitchy attitude? Fine. Just realize that you’ve narrowed the field of men down to a very small minority. Furthermore, any willingness on their part to give in to a woman who feigns equality when really exercising control may be more out of their desparation than any kind of true acceptance.
Before you dismiss the rest of this article, please read on. It could very well be that the point being made here will help any female reader gain some needed insight into the workings of the male mind and visa-versa. You see, few males would ever demean a woman who has done well in her chosen career. Most of us enjoy a gal with some spunk.
One of this writer’s favorite movie scenes is from “Overboard,” starring Goldie Hawne and Kirk Russell. Her character joins him for a beer at a redneck bar. When she reaches for her drink, Russell’s character states that, “I’ve always been attracted to women who drink their beer straight from the bottle.” The point is that we men enjoy our women in all shapes and sizes and with all of your liberties as well, but we are absolutely turned off and disgusted when you feel that you can only relate to us with an “attitude.”
-
Much like the gay male who overdoes his femininity with flamboyance, we view a female who is overly aggressive, manipulative, demeaning, and indignate in much the same way. There will never be any substitute for the expression true humanity, whether it is demonstrated by a man or a woman. Nothing is more attractive to a male than a liberated woman with a balanced attitude that is genuine and considerate.
I happen to work in an environment filled with young adults. Not only that, but I have two grown sons. If overly aggressive women could but hear the disgust for them as these young fellows talk, they would have to reconsider their self-deluded arrogance that demands they portray themselves as bitchy women. Except for whimps, there are few real men who really want anything to do with women who are self-gradiozed and demeaning toward men.
These are the same women who revel in denigrating men for their supposed cluelessness. In truth, this issue has less to do with any difference between the sexes and much more to do with whether or not one is going to be a decent human being.
I’ve had the experience of dating a woman who, although she was physically gorgeous, portrayed a superior attitude in all that she said and did. Her response to our four dates together resulted in an e-mail message stating that I was very “basic and simple” and that she was really looking for her “equal.” Even if I am basic and simple, the point is that she has obviously taken this attitude toward all men because that was most of the content of our conversations–her thirteen years of dating one “jerk” after another. However, I do think that she deserves her “equal.” After all, bitchy guys do exist as well.
Like my four-date-nightmare, there are too many women who complain about men not being romantic. The truth is that we guys are very capable of being romantic. It’s just that a woman with a self-centered attitude isn’t worth the effort on our part. Oh, we’ll go to bed with her as long as we can tolerate her barbs, griping, and whining but don’t think for one minute that we are going to ever get down on one knee and ask if she would like to wear our engagement ring.
No, that request will be saved for a truly liberated woman–the one who is liberated from herself.
- -
In a perfect world, liberated women would be less aggressive and good men would be much more understanding regarding how to treat a woman more as a person than prey. Those couples who are enjoying a truly mutually fulfilling relationship are doing so because they have worked at developing balance, understanding each other, and relearning the simple truth that all of us need to be treated as valued human beings if we are to love truly and feel genuinely loved in return.
The world isn’t perfect but, then again, each of us has the ability to readjust our thinking so that we can bring both maturity and understanding to our own primary relationships.
Either that or we’ll just have to adapt to being unhappy and very much alone.
May every woman experience nothing but the right to be free in every way and do well in whatever they attempt to do with no man-made obstacles to have to confront along the way. That is your right and that is what your fore-mothers worked so hard to accomplish for you.
All I am saying here is that some of you are obviously making the mistake of becoming exactly what you have historically hated in men.
Don’t be a bitch and if you are one, don’t blame it on men. Take responsibility for yourselves and be our friends, companions, counterparts, equals, lovers, and partners.
April 23rd, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Just wanted to say that you sound like a great guy ~ this was a very well thought out response and provided super insight into the despicable behavior of corporate bitches (yes, that is what they are)…hopefully they will reflect on such, however, most of them are such pathological narcissists they may not derive anything from it…I had a “friend” who I used to admire because of her business acumen, however after a while I realised just how selfish, overly competitive, and positively evil she was and terminated the friendship. The problem is, I think these type of women spoil it for other women…they go overboard and are not even nice to each other or supportive…there was an expression I heard once that would be applicable to such types of women, as quoted by Madeleine Albright: “There is a special place in hell for women that don’t help other women”…wonder if they will ever get it? I don’t think so, they are too busy working on their “charisma”!